Episode 175
Romance author and creator of the Wide for the Win Facebook group, Erin Wright, shares a blueprint for going from KU to wide as well as marketing tips for selling wide–without ads!
Author Website:
ErinWright.net
ErinWright.net/Authors
ErinWright.net/Consultin
Wide for the Win Facebook Group
💜 🎙 Become a supporter of the podcast! We can’t wait to give you a shoutout in a future episode. WishIdKnownForWriters.com/Support
Time Stamps:
11:09 Success, Ghostwriting, and Writing Craft
26:11 Tips for Going Wide in Publishing
36:43 Author Success Strategies
48:48 Transitioning to Wide Sales and Loyal Readership
Our Sponsor:
Transcript:
Jami Albright [00:00:25]:
Welcome to Wish I known then podcast. I’m Sarah Rosette. And I’m Jamie Albright. And this week on the show we have. Erin Wright. Yes. We do. Erin is the founder or co founder founder of the Wide for The Wind Facebook group. and she is a vault of information — — information. — why yeah. I’m going wide and and just all things wide, and she’s just such a delight. It was a great podcast.
Sara Rosett [00:00:57]:
Yes. And she had so much information that we’re actually gonna have her back on later to talk about some of her other things, but we really delve into, like, going from k u to going wide and her advice on that, she really gives a very detailed way to do it. I mean — Mhmm. — and some just really good advice on that. And just talked about her marketing and how she markets her books, and she spends I think. She said she doesn’t spend very much on ads if anything. And so she talks about how she markets her books without using ads. Right. I don’t think she does ads at all. Yeah. It didn’t sound like it. So — Mm-mm. — it’s been a little while since we recorded it, so our brains may have forgotten Yes. Tiny detailed, but in the majority, you know, she just uses other types of advertising and mark other types of marketing. so we we came to that. So that was cool. Yep. Yeah. It’s a great interview. Yeah. So this week is our 2nd week with book vault is our supporter. So remember that, and we’ll come back to that in a minute. But we do have a a 1 new supporter, Piper, Dow, and
Jami Albright [00:02:09]:
She chose the dog emoji, which I love. I don’t know if anybody has chosen that before. I don’t either. I do I do love that one. Yeah. Thank you, Piper. We appreciate it. We appreciate all our supporters. Thank you so so much. It it lets us know. I think Joanna Pen says this, but it us know that you enjoy the podcast and you like what we’re doing, and
Sara Rosett [00:02:29]:
I feel the same way as Joanna. So — Yes. I do too. We’re so thankful for all our supporters. We really appreciate it. Yeah. So what have you been doing this week?
Jami Albright [00:02:39]:
Well, not much. No. Actually, that’s not true. I’ve had 2 consulting clients, and then I have another one today. And those have been fun and gone well. I’ve been not well. I’ve not I’ve been kind of sick. So I’ve just been kinda laying low. and I’m not doing swimming lessons this week. So I’ve stayed out of the water as much as I can, and But yeah. So that’s about it. Just kinda I’ve been watching Ball. It’s kind of an ultra, but it’s it was on NBC, I think, or CBS, one of those. It he’s a trial consultant or trial scientist. He corrects people. And, anyway, I’ve just been while I haven’t been feeling well, that’s what I’ve been doing. Just kinda binging that show. I watched all the Witcher. Okay. Yeah. So so the new season of Witcher is in two parts. So I watched all the the 1st part of the Witcher super good. Mhmm. And then the second part, I think, is July 27th. and it’s good. Also, one more thing. Y’all can tell where my head’s been. Silo, on Apple TV. I finished this season. Y’all, it was so good. I’ve never read the books. I never read wool. But
Erin Wright [00:04:15]:
It
Jami Albright [00:04:18]:
it was really good. You liked it? Yeah. I can’t wait for the next season. It’s really good. So So if you like, dystopia kind of thing and — Mhmm. — then you you might really like that.
Sara Rosett [00:04:32]:
So so that’s great. Yeah. Well, that’s good. Yeah. I’ll have to check it out. Yeah. I I tried this new series, and It’s okay. So it’s very it’s a story within a story. It’s a it’s a spin off in the agatha Christie world. But Agatha Christie had a character — Mhmm. — who sometimes assisted pro. Missus Oliver. And — Mhmm. — and she was an author. And she poked fun at herself. Christie poked fun herself, I think, through this character. Mhmm. And this character wrote about this fictional character. And so they have taken that fictional character and made a series out of it. And it’s it’s in it’s Swedish television made it, I think. Hope I get all this right. Swedish television made it. The character is finished in the books. And so he’s a fan, but Swedish television made this story. And, basically, there’s not that much known about him. And so it was really funny to watch it because there are some nods I just like, the first two episodes, like, there are one story and 2 parts, and there’s all these nods to Agatha Christie and to this character in it. So it’s pronounced Yershon, I think, is how you say it, but it’s like h j e r s o n, I think, is the spelling. Mhmm. So I it’s on topic like the channel in — Yeah. — Prime. You can find it there. Yeah. And but it came out a couple years ago. It is so interesting because it’s, like, very It’s just so funny that it’s like a fictional character from a fictional character. So it’s, like, very Yeah. Lots of inside things, like, if you like Agatha Christie. Yeah. There’s a couple of references to her, and then there’s a couple of things that she mentions about him, but it’s really funny in the because — Mhmm. — Missus Oliver is always saying things like, why did I write about a fin? I know nothing about the Finnish people. And, like, so she’s kinda making fun of, like, writing about Parrot, who’s Belgian, and she doesn’t know. So — Yeah. So that’s a long tangent on my most recent television.
Jami Albright [00:06:32]:
rabbit hole. Oh, you’ll have to send it to me. So Yeah. because you know I love them. Yeah. I love those too. So Yeah. Anyway, is it what else has been going on with you?
Sara Rosett [00:06:41]:
Well, so I’m getting back in the groove of just I’m catching up on a bunch of stuff. I did a bunch of email. I’m working on my store. And learning a lot about that. We’re gonna do a podcast next time about direct sales. So — Mhmm. getting into all that and kinda figuring out what I want my plan to be. So working on that, and then we’ve been doing a lot of yard work around that. Unfortunately, I’m not doing it. I’m like, watching my husband super miss the neighbor’s kids. He I was like, please please get somebody to help you spread out the sod. So he’s got some neighbor kids over, and he’s paying them. Thank goodness. It’s not me. I’m so happy. It’s not me. Yes.
Jami Albright [00:07:25]:
Yes. You got out of the duties.
Sara Rosett [00:07:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. And then next week, I’m going to Kosey Khan, and I will let y’all know about that. So that’s all I have going on. Alright. Well, we should get them up. Do we have more about book book vault? Or — We do. Yes. We do. Because book vault is our sponsor this month, and they launched by the time this goes out, they will have launched their printing in the US. And, yes, we’re so excited. So that will be really helpful for US authors. It will the cost will be cheaper, and the shipping will be faster. Mhmm. And they are just a great company to work with. I’ve really I’ve used them. In fact, I’ll show won’t be able to I could put this in the group. I ordered copies of what will be my Kickstarter book. So I’m gonna have I just ordered from book vault. They got here the other day, so I have the hardcover and the tray paper back, and they look beautiful. — fabulous. Yeah. So — They say they look really good. — came from the UK, but not too late. because, I mean, I ordered these before they launched. But now I’m planning on ordering even more. Yeah. Yeah. I think that I think that’s what I admire most about the default is they seem to really listen to their customers. Yes. From from the interview we did — Mhmm. — and then just listening to other people. They really do listen to their customers, so that’s great. Yeah. Yeah. They even had a survey out don’t know if it’s still up. It was on social media the other day that if you like, what would you like to see us do? Like, what special things would you like? Yeah. That’s awesome. Yeah. So they’re very, very plugged into the author community, which we appreciate. Yep. Thank you, but, Paul. Yeah. For sponsoring us, we appreciate it. Yes. And if you’re interested in BookWalt, you can go to wish I’d known for writers .com/bookwalt. Yep. Alright. So I guess we should get on the interview. Let’s do it. Alright. Here is Erin. Well, today, we are so excited to talk with Erin Wright. Hi, Erin. How are you?
Jami Albright [00:09:23]:
Hi. Good. I’m so excited to be here. Well, we’re very excited you’re here, and we’ll let Sarah read Jabayo, and then we’ll get started. Yes. We have so many questions.
Sara Rosett [00:09:34]:
Erin Wright is a full time author, but unless you’re a fan of sexy cowboys, you’ve probably heard of her because of why for the win Facebook group. She co founded the group back in 2019 and has been posting in the group instead of writing books ever since. Yep.
Erin Wright [00:09:49]:
That’s about right.
Jami Albright [00:09:52]:
Tell us how you got into writing, Erin.
Erin Wright [00:09:56]:
Oh, sure. I mean, I was your typical kid, you know, where I entered all the writing contest, and I ran a won a couple and whatever. But I didn’t think that you could actually you know, make a living, writing, like, that’s that’s not something that’s a real job. Right? Right. That’s just a that’s just a per pretenses job. And so, you know, I I had all the jobs out there. I was in libraries for 7 years including 18 months as a library director. And I mean, I worked I worked elsewhere to the different things. I really enjoyed it. I was a teacher. And then I found an online group that was talking about how you could be an author And I joined that, like, oh my gosh. Did you know that, like, there’s people who are actually authors, like, that’s amazing. I was so, like, just blown away. And at first, I just hung out of the group and, like, bask in the glory that was being around real authors? because, I mean, like, I couldn’t actually be a real author. Like, that’s crazy. But, like, I can hang around real authors. Yes. So I started I actually started out with ghost writing, and then I sort of went You know? Well, my husband told me that I was being an idiot and that I needed to just write for myself. So but, yeah, it’s kind of a about way of getting in there. Mhmm. I needed the training wheels of writing for somebody else first. Mhmm. Make me go, oh,
Jami Albright [00:11:29]:
This isn’t actually as complicated as I thought it was gonna be. Right, that’s great. I love that because you did that’s a great way to put it, the training wheels of writing for somebody else that’s that’s really I don’t think people think about that when they think about ghost writing. You know, I think they Yeah. Yeah. because they they provided the
Erin Wright [00:11:49]:
the outline for me. They did all the publishing. All I had to do was actually finish a novel. Mhmm. Which for a lot of offers, like, actually finishing the first novel is the hardest part of all of it. And by having somebody else who had deadlines, and and they needed it done and blah blah blah blah. Then I then it actually happened, and I ended up writing 3 novels for them in a series, and then I thought, This is this is doable. But, you know, this isn’t this isn’t rocket science, y’all. Nice. This is doable.
Sara Rosett [00:12:24]:
Right. It sort of takes the pressure off a little bit because you’re doing it for somebody else, so it’s a good way to get started. We’ve talked to other people who have done that too. It’s fascinating. Anyway, so what is your definition of success?
Erin Wright [00:12:39]:
Oh, probably being able to control my own career. even if I were super successful as a Tradpub to offer, Let’s say that I I took on JK Rowling. Right? And and I became the next JK Rowling in terms of income. I would still really struggle because I wouldn’t be able to control so many things about my own career. I guess when you get super huge, like, you know, then you can negotiate these sorts of things into your contract. But — Right. — I just I’m not meant to work with a publishing company because I always have better ideas than them. I mean, it’s a republishing company, but, like, that’s just the way the cookie crumbles. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. I want to be able to to do my own covers and my own blurbs and my own marketing and So having control over my own career is a a big sign of success for me — Mhmm. — as opposed to handing that over to somebody else. And then paying my bills with it. Right? Like, this is my full time job. I don’t otherwise, sling hash browns down at the local diner or something to pay my bills. This is it. This is the whole kit and caboodle right here. So if I’m not making money from writing, I’m homeless, which is a pretty good incentive to write, honestly. So you can go ahead. Those two things yeah. Those two things together, I would say, are are my how I would define success.
Sara Rosett [00:14:24]:
Yeah. It’s great. I love that.
Jami Albright [00:14:27]:
So what do you wish you’d known about writing in craft when you started?
Erin Wright [00:14:37]:
You know, I feel like One of the things that I that I struggled with when I first started writing was knowing how to reach my market. When I first came out of the gate, because I write Cowboys and firefighters. Right? Mhmm. And sexy firefighters who are also cowboys because of course, I do. Of course. Crossover. And so I had all these ideas of, like, I should advertise my books in, you know, Western what is that called? There’s a there’s a magazine anyway that, like, focuses on the Western United States or, like, horsemen today or, you know, these different kinds of of magazines like that. Like, I was just thinking
Sara Rosett [00:15:40]:
way too deep and
Erin Wright [00:15:43]:
complicated for were what was actually you know, I just I write romance novels where the main characters are in a small town and they’re cowboys, but if you love romances, then you’re gonna like my books. So I don’t need to cater only to people who own horses. I was making things way more complicated than I needed to, which is far for the course for me. So yeah.
Sara Rosett [00:16:09]:
That’s funny because a lot of people will start, like, in the genre, and then they’ll branch out and go, okay. Where else can I find? Maybe I should go to, like, I guess it’s called psychographics where you figure out the broader ways to reach people that may be in those areas, you’ll find your purse your people. But, yeah, you can’t go wrong targeting romance readers who like horses and cowboys. Right? And cowboys and firefighters.
Erin Wright [00:16:37]:
Right. And my next series is going to be military. So — There you go. — you know, sexy guys in military, you really just In fact, what I think I’m gonna do is is have a cowboy who joined the military who then comes back and joins the local, you know, volunteer firefighter department and just wrap it all up with an with a knee bow.
Sara Rosett [00:16:56]:
Yeah. I think that’s great. Genius.
Erin Wright [00:16:59]:
That’s genius.
Sara Rosett [00:17:02]:
That’s great. There are a lot of people I think that go from the military too, like, firefighting and EMT type stuff. So sort of based in her life also, not just fictional crossover stuff. Right. Right. Yeah. So we talked about marketing a little bit. Is there anything that you wish you knew about, like, the craft of writing? Like, just the writing itself?
Erin Wright [00:17:27]:
Yeah. That’s I was going to become better than I was when I started. You know, would you first start writing, and I I see this all the time with people I do consultations with. They’re 1st babies I mean, they’re 1st books. are, you know, maybe not as perfect as they could have been. And so they they get brief reviews. Mhmm. And we’re now and it’s hard because it’s like, I worked so hard like that was labor page that are out of control, and and so you you want to think that that book is just perfect. And You go back as you get better, and you’re going to go, oh, wow. That first attempt was Awesome. How about if I clean some things up here? Right? Mhmm. And so I am really glad I actually was saved from myself by knowing or by being poor. Excuse me. Mhmm. That was — It was crazy. — saves a lot of us from a lot of mistakes because kids can’t afford it. Right? Exactly. Right. Yes. Because I really, like, I love audiobooks. That’s my primary way of consuming books because I can listen while I’m doing the issues, laundry, whatever, because I don’t have a lot of time to sit and read. So, like, from book 1, I wanted my book in audio. I wanted my books in hard covers. I wanted my books translated into other languages. I wanted all these things and I didn’t have money for any of that — Yes. — because I was bored. And so I didn’t And that gave me the flexibility that later on, I went back and I rewrote probably at least a half dozen of my books Oh, really? point. Yeah. I think that I’m unusual in that all of my books take place in the same world. So all the characters know each other and crossover between the books. So I need each one of them to really pull their weight. Because if I lose somebody out of my world, then maybe they don’t come back. Whereas if I write different series — Mhmm. — and somebody doesn’t like this particular series, well, they’re gonna maybe like this one over here that’s way different. Well, all of mine are in this world, and I have to have those they have to be really strong. Right. And and so, yeah, I rewrote, like, to the point of needing UI BNs and the whole — Wow. — getting caboodle. Wow. Yeah.
Sara Rosett [00:20:12]:
Yeah. That’s the yeah. That’s the kind of the downside of doing a series. Series can be great because they can pull people in, and they’ll keep reading. But, like, especially if you just have one series and you have one starting point, And if that’s your first book and that’s your weakest book, that’s can be really difficult to get people to keep going.
Jami Albright [00:20:32]:
So yeah. That’s smart enough. — these days. Yeah. Yeah. Almost the cost.
Erin Wright [00:20:37]:
And that’s actually when I that’s how I finally decided I would go back and rewrite my very first spoke, was I had a chance to interact with one of my like, I had a total fan girl moment where there’s an author in my genre, anybody who reads my genre, Katherine Anderson. You would know her name. And she she’s, you know, traditionally published, and she writes these fantastic books, and I just loved her and she was doing a live in Facebook years ago. And I had a chance to interact with her. And I’m like, just so you don’t hear the reason why I write this Sean. Right? I love your books and you’re the best. It’s a, you know, total fan girl. Total. I I am happy to admit. that. And she’s like, oh, what’s the name of of one of your books? You know? I I’ll pick it up, and my gut reaction was not accounting for love. Like because that was my first book, and I was like, not that one. Please look at that one. And at that point, I’d had a book pub on accounting for love. I’d hit the USA Today bestsellers with accounting for love. It was my permafree. It was when I was advertising everybody. I was like, if I don’t think it’s good enough for Catherine Anderson, it’s not good enough. See, I I’ve gotta take a step back, and I’ve gotta rework this. So, yeah, I tore that whole sucker apart and rewrote.
Sara Rosett [00:22:04]:
So yeah. Wow. So how long does that Long How long did that take you?
Erin Wright [00:22:10]:
You know, only a couple of months, which for me, other people feel like, well, I write a book a month, but I’m like, that’s that’s cool. That’s not me. So only a couple of months for me is really fast. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, it’s it ended up about 50% longer, which is just a lot more developed because it it was my first well, my first book under my under me, right, instead of my ghost my ghost writing names. But, yeah, it just it just needed to be better. So I was able to do that because I hadn’t paid for translations and — Mhmm. — audiobooks and all these special print whatever whatever. If I had done that and I had dump $15,000 in various, you know, formats and such, I wouldn’t have touched it. because you can’t, like, you can’t do that. Mhmm. So — Yeah. — even if you have the money, like, if you could just spend it all at the beginning because you got a windfall because of relative passed away and you have $5000, you could just dump it into your into your career right at the beginning. Don’t do it. Obviously, if you get 5 years down the road and you reread the first three books that you’ve written, and you think they are as amazing 5 years on the road as you did the day that you published them. You haven’t learned anything.
Sara Rosett [00:23:39]:
You should be better
Erin Wright [00:23:41]:
5 years into this. Yeah. There absolutely should be. Yeah. There’s always a
Sara Rosett [00:23:48]:
it’s always difficult to go back and read your first books, I think, because usually you have grown and changed. But if you’re careful like you like, we’re saying you were held back by financial limits.
Erin Wright [00:24:00]:
Careful is not the word. I was I was impeded and was not to do what I really wanted to do. But that’s one of those things that’s, like, thank goodness for, you know,
Sara Rosett [00:24:10]:
the the mistake the mistakes or the things that we’re blocked and not able to do, sometimes that actually turns out to be a blessing. So that’s that can be a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Thank goodness for poverty.
Erin Wright [00:24:21]:
Yeah. I had to borrow I had to borrow my money from my family for my first book pub. because I couldn’t afford it on my own. You know? I paid him back with interest and but, like, I was not bored with silver spoon in my mouth. That is to put it mildly. And so, yeah, it’s been it’s been a lot of work, and When I first started out, I was ghost writing, and I was doing PA work for other authors, and I was proofreading, and I was also still teaching on top of trying to write my own books. Mhmm. So yeah. Yeah.
Jami Albright [00:24:55]:
But if not everybody needs to go back and reroute their first books. But if you have a book that’s not selling or the the The reviews are not giving you what you want or you’re you have people reading the first book and they’re not reading through to the second book. Then those are the things you need to look at. And then maybe you do need to go in and rework some stuff. So I admire you for doing that. I think that’s awesome.
Erin Wright [00:25:21]:
Well and there’s some people that are like, oh my god. I would rather, you know, stick myself in the eyeball with the rest of the fork than go back and rewrite a previous book that I wrote. Yeah. Right? That would be me. Yeah. You’re right. So I am not saying, like, this is whatever everybody should do. Right. But a lot of it is, like, think about if you were to if you were to meet one of your one of your idles in the writing world, and they were to pick up that book. Yeah. How excited would you be about that? Yeah. How do you feel about, like, rewriting, would it make a difference in your career long term, or should you just sort of pretend like that first series didn’t happen? That’s what a lot of authors do. Right? Like, they’ll stop advertising or they’ll even unpublished because it’s not great. I didn’t have that choice because that was a start of my whole world. Mhmm. So I couldn’t just walk off the first five books and be like, just kidding. Right. Those totally didn’t exist. Just never mind. Right?
Jami Albright [00:26:25]:
Yeah. That just wasn’t an option for me. Right. So yeah. Well, if you were starting over today, what would you do differently?
Erin Wright [00:26:33]:
Oh gosh. Man, that’s hard because everybody has mistakes that they made, but I feel like in so many ways, mistakes are are how you learn. Yeah. So my gut They are. Yeah. Yeah. My gut reaction is to say not have gone into k u. Right? Mhmm. because I know that I’m now known as the Queen of Wide, but that was not always the case. and I started out in k u just like everybody else. Because hashtag duh, that’s the only way you can make any money. Hello? Mhmm. And so I was in k u. And I figured out that that was not the world for me and and to you know, go wide, and and then I sort of widened the wind down the road and blah blah blah blah blah. But if I had started wide from the jump, I wouldn’t have the ability to, as is deeply empathize with people who also started out in KU and realized this isn’t for me. Right? So even though it was a mistake. Mhmm. It was also something that I learned a lot from, and I know how confining it is to be in Ku because it was when I realized that I couldn’t be in libraries. that I to finally, this straw broke camel’s back, being a library, and I was like, you what? I can’t again, library.
Jami Albright [00:28:19]:
What is this trap? What you say in Willis? Yeah.
Erin Wright [00:28:24]:
So so yeah. You know? you can’t publish your books on your own on your own site or get them away for free because it’s all restricted. Like, no. No. No. No. No. No. Just like I couldn’t be traditionally published, I can’t be k u. I want I have too many of my own ideas about how the world should work. Damn it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s great. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is a good segue to one of our questions about tips for going wide because
Sara Rosett [00:28:51]:
there are a lot of people here in Ku, and lots of people would like to go wide, but they’re afraid to, or they’re worried, you know, so what tips do you have? for someone who would like to go wide and any advice. Absolutely.
Erin Wright [00:29:09]:
So I have I talked to the well over 400 different authors at this point. because I do consultations in case somebody didn’t catch that, where I help people figure out how to go wide and be successful when they’re wide and blah blah blah. So and I have quite a spread from authors who’ve never published anything to authors who are super successful in Ku, but now wanna go why to authors who ever been in KU and have only been wide to — Mhmm. — you know, every permutation you can think of. Traditional publishing to indie blah blah blah. And one of the things that I have noticed is there’s some advice out there that you should start out in KU, build up your readership, and then go wide when you have readers. And and that always is a difficult thing because a difficult way to to run a railroad. The truth of the matter is is that Ku readers for the most part do not move with you when you go wide. Yep. There are a few who will read your grocery list Right? Whatever you put out, they’re gonna read it. It doesn’t matter. But most Ku readers will say, that, man, that sucks that you’re not gonna be in Ku anymore. Well, good luck. Guess I’m gonna go find some mails to read now. Mhmm. So if you spend your time building up a reader chip in Ku and then try to go wide, it’s really hard because people are like, well, I’ll wait until I’m successful in Ku, and then I can afford to go wide because and it takes a long time to build up readership in sales on y platforms. Yeah. And so if you have already become successful in KU, almost always But just always, that entails a lot of bills. You now have to pay for a large mailing list, your website, PAs, you know, ads, covers, ARC teams. You have a lot of expense that come along with building up that readership. So now you’re going wide because your success well, woo, you have the money except for you really don’t because you have all these ongoing costs. And now you’re trying to take a big pay cut and go wide, and you can’t afford it. I talk to a lot of authors who are like, I want nothing more than to go wide, but I have to make x amount of dollars every month or my family’s out on the street, and I can’t afford to take the pay cut. So I am stuck in k u. Mhmm. And the worst thing in the world to do is to go wide and then go back into Ku because the white platforms notice they don’t take it kindly, you’re much better off to just stay in KU and don’t go wide. Yeah. Honestly. And I I that’s seemed really weird for me to say,
Sara Rosett [00:32:46]:
but but — It seems not what you would expect to hear from the for the win Facebook group.
Erin Wright [00:32:52]:
Right. Right. But if if you can’t financially afford to go wide take a pay cut, and hang on for a year, you shouldn’t be going wide. Not until you can. because otherwise, you will just be setting yourself up for failure. And at the end of the year, you’re going to have pissed everybody off. You’re going to piss off your k u readers who are angry that you’ve pulled out and went wide. You’re going to piss off the wide retailers who are upset because they gave you merchandising opportunities, and then you pulled your books back out and went back into k u. You can maybe have pissed off your wide beaders who found you while you were wide, and now you’re not anymore. And What do you have to show for it? Yeah. Right? Yeah. A lot of stress. Yeah. Yeah. A whole lot of stress and angry people. What is your oh, go ahead. I’m sorry. I was just gonna say the best thing is to go wide, when you don’t rely upon your income from writing, to support your family. I have people who are like, wow. I mean, I don’t make that much. but I do make money when I’m in Ku, and I don’t wanna lose that money. And I start digging in, and I find out that net they’re making 150 bucks a month. Mhmm. Mhmm. And I’m like, okay. Alright. I know that you’re like, hey. I’m making money as an or and you don’t wanna get that up. But is a $150 actually keeping you off the streets? Right. Right. Or could you actually just give that up and go wide and rebuild from there? And they go, oh, no. You’re right. Like, they were so focused on, but I make $400 a month in Ku, and then you find out that, you know, a vast majority of it’s going back into AMS ads. It’s like, you know, be willing to give that up and spend the time building your wide platform where I have never run a Facebook ad in my life. Mhmm. I don’t know where the Facebook ads dashboard is at. Right? I don’t. I have no idea. I found it once, like, 2 months ago on accident as I was stumbling around. I’m like, my god. This is where it’s at now. Then I wandered off, and I was seeing that. Like, I couldn’t find it again. I don’t run AMS ads. I don’t run book by bats. I don’t rely on any of that because I’ve spent years now building up my wide readership. And relationships with merchandisers, and you it’s just a completely wildly different strategy to do well on wide than it is to do well in Ku. Yeah. Can you make a lot of money wide with Facebook ads? Oh, absolutely. Sky Warren is the queen of that. Right? Mhmm. But you don’t have to. And that’s tea. Yeah. Almost guarantee that you have to. Mhmm.
Sara Rosett [00:35:53]:
And so I have 2 2 follow-up questions for you. I think one one would be, like, what if somebody does have, like, this big backlist and it’s all in ku. Does it make sense for them to take out a couple of series and go wide with a couple of series first and kinda learn how to do wide? and then eventually move everything out. What would be your recommendation for somebody like that?
Erin Wright [00:36:16]:
Okay. So, honestly, and this is also going to come across as many, but take your your lowest performing series wide first. Really? Because Yeah. Absolutely. If you’re gonna screw up on something, screw up on the one that you make no money on. Well, I guess you’re right. — faster. Fail faster, Jamie. Faster. That’s right. They’re gonna That’s our new model. — got to. Keep going. Oh, okay. Yes. Well, I mean, you know, you’d it’s like, you know what? The first time that you that you do a big presentation to be in front of a a million people. You know? It’d be better if it’s ten friends in your living room. So — Right. Right. Right. — make the mistakes on the on the the series that doesn’t make you any money, and then you can learn how the white platforms work. in terms of how do you how do you upload to a platform. Right? What are what are the steps that you take? And there’s a lot of optimization things that are true about why that are very different from how Amazon works. And so just learning all the all the nitty gritty stuff. And then once you are feeling good about Being able to upload white platforms, being able to sell on white platforms even with just a little bit, because it definitely will be, especially if you upload your worst series only, then, you know, then you could probably start with your oldest series — Mhmm. — and move that over and and start going. And then get to the point where you your next book, you’re releasing wide. Mhmm. Mhmm. And and just stay wide from there. Yeah.
Sara Rosett [00:38:01]:
It’s really — So I think that’s super helpful and a lot of kind of counter counterintuitive what people would think. Mhmm. So I think that’s great information and advice And then my second question is when you said you didn’t use ads and stuff, you you didn’t don’t depend on that. I know everybody who’s listening to this is saying, well, what do you do?
Erin Wright [00:38:21]:
Right. So how do you market your books? They’re yelling in the head. Yelling through speaker right now. But what do you do, Erin? Okay. So the first thing that I do is everything for me Me, personally, there’s a million different ways to be successful, right, but this is what I personally have done. Mhmm. Everything I write is in the same world. that works in my favor in the fact that if I can get somebody into my world, they have 15 books that they can read. Right? That that’s going to appeal because it’s in the same small town. It’s not just in the same genre. It’s in the same small town. And so there’s, you know, intercrossing between all of them. That’s not possible for most authors. They don’t wanna stay in the same world. I get that. So but I just I’m all about admitting my privilege, and and that is a privilege that I have in terms of being an author is that I I do right in that same world. Setting that aside, cross promoting with other wide authors was a big part of my success. Mhmm. I’ve done multiple box sets with other wide authors. and I’m not talking about box sets that are, like, you know, 50 books and whatever whatever. I’m talking about box sets that are actually out there to help you grow your readership, which is going to be a smaller box set — Right. — 6, maybe 8 authors. Mhmm. I’ll put in your perma free. Mhmm. You’re not making any book free that isn’t already free. Right. You’re not having to worry about splitting royalties. Right? Oh, yeah. That’s true. That’s a big deal. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Put your permafries in. Everybody advertises that permit free to their own list. Go for paid newsletters. Go for book pub. And if somebody in the group does is right at Facebook ads, let them have at it. You know what I mean? But but the cost is is really quite minuscule by the time you split a part every cost, you know, into 6 or 8 people or whatever. Right. Then it’s not hard to afford a cover and some, you know, rebalancing that mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we always I always just did that as part of the thing because I own that one. But yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So cross promoting with other authors who are wide, who are in your genre, and your heat level. If you and and heat yes, romance, but also if you write mysteries, think of heat level equivalency of, like, how much gore is on the page. Right? Mhmm. So if you’re a cozy mystery author who writes all about cupcakes and then you try to cross promote within mystery author who it’s all about the dead people, you know, all over the you know, there’s blood going everywhere. Like, yes. You must be you you’re both miss 3 authors, but that’s not the same. It’s not the same. Say, mentally, you know, replace the words heat with whatever is applicable in your particular genre because it’s always you’ve always got those variations in a genre. Right. And so it’s really important, like, I don’t cross promote with a wide author who writes Billionaire Bad Boys because that’s nowhere close to what I write. I write small towns, steamy, cowboy romances. So my books are gonna be medium heat, you know, call markers. So okay. Alright. And that’s a blathering about comp authors and that sort of thing. Number 2, free is king. unwise platforms much more so than on Amazon. The thing about Amazon is they don’t like free because they want you to use Ku. They want Ku readers to only check out looks in Ku. If a reader could get a book for free and they don’t have to pay for Ku to get it, That totally strikes at the heart — Right. — the k u model. So Amazon loads free books. Right? And and you can definitely see that in everything that they do up to and including the fact can’t even put your book to free. You have the price match that bad boy blah blah blah blah. Yeah. So that’s Amazon. Mhmm. Why platforms You’ll have k u. Mhmm. Free cells. That’s how you make money. You go down to Costco, Sam’s Club, you could log on to Netflix, whatever it is. There’s always a free cookie trial cracker. Mhmm. dip. Whatever it is — Yeah. — because this is how you get readers. And so if you are not willing to put at least the start of a series to free, you are going to struggle as a white author. Yeah. I can think of a white author, and if she’s listening to this, Yes. I’m thinking about you. Who refuses to make any of her books free. She is very successful. However, she writes in a very small niche. and she’s been writing for a very long time, she has a big catalog. And so she’s built up this readership for over a decade now. For the average author coming in now, what she does is just really not what I would consider to be a strategy and use more of Good luck in terms of timing and writing ability and timing. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. So permit free. Free is king. advertise your 1st in series. be willing to box set up your books, box sets do really well on my platforms, and don’t think that you are limited to the 999. You are not That is a Amazon only thing. So on white platforms, $10, a $100, doesn’t matter. You get the same royalties. And so one of the things in my I should really, really do that list that totally exists for me is taking my 15 books and putting them into one megaboxet and allowing people because right now, I have this series in boxsets But the way I release books, like, I would release, like, book 7 in my cowboy series and then book 2 in my firefighter series and then book, you know, 8 in my cowboy series and then book 1 in my musician series, that sort of thing. So if you actually wanted to read them chronologically — Mhmm. — you have to skip between series. And so if I were to put together massive box set where it was actually in chronological order from beginning to end, like, I would do so well with that.
Sara Rosett [00:45:24]:
How should totally do that? Anyway, yes. Yes. You should. And I’m making a note. That’s such a great idea. That is a great idea. Yeah. That is a great idea.
Erin Wright [00:45:33]:
But diversification is super, super important when you’re a white author. Yeah. So quite often, we are thinking, okay. ebooks, k u versus wide. And that’s like the end. Mhmm. Mhmm. Think You gotta think wider? Yeah. You gotta think bigger than that — Mhmm. — because there are serial apps. There’s selling direct. There’s quick starters. Right. I mean, the list goes on in terms of all the different formats, languages, Mhmm. — that you can get into. And all of that helps you diversify your income so that maybe this month, your ebook sales on Amazon have dropped. like, for a lot of people they have. Mhmm. Mhmm. But that doesn’t mean that your paperback sales that could sudden dive or your audiobook sales fell off my cliff. or your serial apps aren’t doing well anymore. Right? So you’ve gotta think about all the various ways that you can use the same IP. So I have my books because I do write romance. I have them up on I have them among kiss and dreamy and, you know, eye reader and all these other sites. Be and then I’m making money from those sites alongside the regular big platforms alongside selling them direct from my own site.
Sara Rosett [00:46:58]:
Yeah. Which makes a lot of sense. I’ve always thought that even if you’re in ku, you can go wide, you know, with print and audio, and — Mhmm. — you can start doing some things to kinda prepare the way even if you’re in KU. And then if you’re not, then you’ve got all these it’s almost overwhelming the different options you have.
Erin Wright [00:47:20]:
A 100%.
Jami Albright [00:47:21]:
Yeah. And I do have a question. So if if someone was NKU and wanting to go wide. And, you know, they do have this readership that’s not gonna follow them more than likely. Have you seen people have success by selling direct like launching the book on their website? Their store or something. Their store or, you know, like selling direct, launching the book there for their KU readers at a discounted price, but then they get all of that money and then go on releasing wide or no.
Erin Wright [00:48:01]:
Yeah. So there’s I mean
Jami Albright [00:48:05]:
Or I guess you don’t have to wait to release wide. You can do it all at once. Yeah.
Erin Wright [00:48:09]:
Yeah. If you’re in KU, you’re just not paying
Sara Rosett [00:48:14]:
for — For books. Yeah. Right?
Erin Wright [00:48:17]:
Right. yeah, it’s all free. So if you are really looking to maximize selling direct, in that case, I don’t feel like it’s so much the cost. It is the they get this x extra that they can’t get from their own — That’s a great — — regular platform.
Jami Albright [00:48:40]:
That’s a great idea. Mhmm.
Erin Wright [00:48:43]:
Because I mean, we’re I I find it fascinating. Ku authors are constantly saying, well, all you have to do is download a new app and put it on your your i your e reader, and then you can still get books that are in Amazon. Mhmm. Mhmm. And and they’re like, you know so so I don’t understand why you’re saying that that if I’m in KU, I’m not accessible to non Amazon readers. And, okay, let’s set aside, you know, branded ereaders where all you can read are books from that platform, like Nook and Kibos and such. set that aside for a second. As aku author, going wide, all you are asking your readers to do is actually pay for the book. Right. They don’t have to move platforms. Right. Right. They don’t have to install a new app. They don’t have to learn anything different. It doesn’t have to be in a different library. They can use exactly the same thing that they are right now. All they have to do is actually pay for it, and they’re not willing to do it. No. They’re not. Yeah. How loyal are they? Not loyal at all. Mhmm. So that’s why it’s every time somebody’s like, oh, I’ll just build up my readership on k u. I just wanna, like, beat my head against some really large flat surface because that’s just not the way the kernels. So what I would say is is if you are trying to make the transition from Ku to selling direct, selling wide, whatever it is that you’re wanting to do. Mhmm. Think about what is that you can offer the reader that would convince them to buy from you. And this is actually for anybody who is listening to this already wide and is thinking about trying to sell direct, all of this is applicable to you too because readers like Comfort. It’s very easy to go to their site of choice whatever it is and buy a book. Mhmm. Then their books are in the same app. they’re they already have their credit cards saved. They already know how to maneuver in that app. They already know how to you know, it’s really hard to get somebody to do something different than what they are already doing. So you have to be able to give them something that makes it worth their while to do that. Almost always in order to build up a really loyal leadership, Mhmm. You don’t want that to be price. Because as soon as you raise it by a dollar, they’re gone. Right? People are like, oh, I don’t know if I should wait for my prices from 3.99 to 4.99. Dude, if your readers are that concerned about a buck? Mhmm. They’re not your they’re not your fans. Right. Right. So so stop focusing so much on price and start focusing on what can you give the mix separate and above and beyond. So character art, deleted scenes. you know, behind behind the scenes, whatever, early access. That’s a huge one, especially if you’re gonna get into Raymond, things like that. Mhmm. People pay really good money for early access because they’re so excited about getting your book early that they’re willing to pay for. You know? And in that case, if you are able to do that, you’re not actually doing anything extra You’re not having to create a t shirt and send it out to them. Right. You’re just doing what you’re already doing. You’re just publishing it ahead of when you would normally be publishing nets. And so for the right author, that can work really well. Okay. — for the wrong author. That could be a total disaster zone. So yeah.
Jami Albright [00:52:27]:
That’s great. That’s great. Well, tell us about So you say you were at all in the same world. Tell us about your town of Long Valley because it’s a real place. Right?
Erin Wright [00:52:38]:
Yes. Yeah. So that’s in fact, my my mom is grew up in Montana, And so I grew up going to Glacier National Park as a kid that was where we would go camping is always up in the mountains and pine trees and mountain lakes, and that’s just where my heart is happy. And Like, I will take mountains over beaches any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Bahamas versus Montana. I’m gonna be in Montana. to see it wouldn’t wanna be. Yeah. I’m out of here. So so my husband actually gets sent to a conference that was training for his job up in Long Valley. And he calls me the first night And he says, Erin, Erin, you’ve got to come up here. And I was like, why was that? And he’s like, no. This is, like, you will love it up here. And I’m like, really? because I had never been up there. I mean, it was only, like, 4 or 5 hours away from where I was living at that point, but it just was another mountainous place in Idaho, which spoiler alert for Idaho. There’s a lot of mountain displaces, so that’s you know? And so he’s like, no. We’ve got to come back here. You and I together. And I was like, okay. Alright. Cool. Cool. Whatever. We were right in the middle of a move, and he got sent for a week training up in the mountains, and I got to move us by myself. So I was already not happy. So we’re already — I was sending Long Valley. Yeah. Right? How dare you be up in the mountains without me while I get to back? No. I was very unhappy. Anyway, So so after the move, we went up there for the trip and we went driving into Long Valley, and I was like, do you look so do you think we can move up here? Like, do you think that’s a thing? could totally move up here. You know? And so I I thought, you know, if I’m gonna be writing my own books because this was right when I was starting to consider that transition from being a ghost writer to being a real writer and writing, you know, for myself. Right. Right. And I thought I could I could write books up here. And then every day that I’m writing, it would be, like, going on vacation. which is not really how it works, but
Sara Rosett [00:55:06]:
— It’s a nice fantasy. Right? Mhmm. It was. It was.
Erin Wright [00:55:10]:
tells you how ignorant I was back then. Oh, you’re so cute, Erin. You’re adorable. Writing is way harder than that. But — Yeah. but it does give me this is the awesome part. It gives me a financial business related reason to go up to Long Valley. Mhmm. And so I was actually just up there this last week. doing book signings at the local library. Mhmm. I sell my books in the local bookstores. And and they say Long Valley on them. And so it’s like, oh, you know? So and so it starting to get to be a little bit more of a tourist area because there’s there’s ski resorts and, you know, large lake that are so much fun to play on. And so they have a lot of tourists coming through. And so then it’s like oh, I can buy a part of One Valley and, you know, still read about it when I go back home. Right? So so I get to go to Long Valley and write it off as a business expense, which is bloody brilliant if you ask me. I think so. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. That is great. So I go up there every other my my plan for 20 23 has been going up there every other month. And part of that is not only to do research and book signings and sales and stuff like that, but also take a lot of pictures. Mhmm. So it’s kinda fun because my husband is a photographer, and so we go up and take a bunch of pictures, and then we use that to create book covers and calendars and bookmarks and those sorts of things from Real Long Valley. And so And I don’t have to pay for the rights to these pictures because — Yeah. Yeah.
Sara Rosett [00:57:06]:
Exactly. Exactly. That sounds great. Yeah. That’s almost as good as having a spouse who will run the ads for you.
Erin Wright [00:57:14]:
I tried that, and my husband tried to learn this was bad. When years ago, he tried to learn Facebook ads, and he didn’t enjoy it any more than I do. So he decided that that was another — He just took another route. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely.
Sara Rosett [00:57:28]:
Yeah. Well, you’re doing a lot of really interesting things in your marketing. Mhmm. And you’re also having a lot of knowledge about libraries but I think we’re running out of time. So I think we would would you be interested in coming back on sometime in the future and we could dig into those subjects? Would that work?
Erin Wright [00:57:46]:
oh, a 100%. Yeah. I’ve done, like, multiple podcasts interviews with different podcasts because I can just I’m like, you know, the machine’s she put a quarter in and crank the handle, and then they just keeps going. Yeah. You get your money’s worth? Yeah. Yes. Yes. You know what? You get all the money you paid to into this, you missed that amount of that you out of which. I had a mirroring my words.
Sara Rosett [00:58:09]:
I guarantee it. Oh, well, that would be awesome. We would love to talk to you more about this. because I think you you do have a lot of knowledge to share, and it’s not 45 minutes is not long enough to get it all. So — Mm-mm. — but for now, why don’t you just tell everybody first of all, we always like to ask what’s the best thing you’ve done to set yourself up for success kind of as a wrap up question. Okay.
Erin Wright [00:58:34]:
Well, be super stubborn and refuse to do what everybody else does. There we go. Because, yeah, everybody else was was in k u. And when I went wide, I literally did not know another single author who was white at point. I didn’t know a single soul. I didn’t even know the names of all the white platforms. I didn’t care. I was going to learn it because I was going to get my books into libraries And so super stubborn.
Sara Rosett [00:59:04]:
I think that’s great. That’s a great that’s a great answer. Yeah. Yeah. It’s very true. I have a friend that she says it’s not who the most talented people are. It’s who the most persistent people who is who are successful. And I think that’s true to a huge extent. So
Jami Albright [00:59:21]:
Yeah. Substitute stubborn for system.
Erin Wright [00:59:24]:
Oh, that’s such a nicer way of saying it truly. So just be more persistent. There you go. Yes. That makes me sound less like a donkey
Jami Albright [00:59:36]:
Oh my gosh. Well, tell people where they can find out more about you, more about your consulting, and all of that in your books. Yeah.
Erin Wright [00:59:45]:
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So if you go to Erin, the girl spelling, so e r i n, write, like Wright Brothers. So erinwright.net.com was already taken by some can’t even believe there’s another aaron right out there. But, anyway so aaronwright.net. And if you that is where you’re gonna find all of my books and such there is an authors tab. But, also, if you just go to erinwright.net/consulting, that’s where you can sign up to a consultation with me. and I can look at your catalog and what you have going on in your life and give you specific advice rather than, you know, generic out there to everybody. Mhmm. Mhmm. And even more important, you should definitely join live with a win. So we are on Facebook and we have recently opened up in Circle also. And so it’s just a really great place to get advice and learn from other people. It’s a it’s a terrific community, and the Facebook group just surpassed 15,000
Jami Albright [01:00:55]:
authors. So that’s great.
Erin Wright [01:00:58]:
It’s a little crazy. When I started that, I thought that we would have, like, max a hundred people because that’s all if it was wide. Right? Like, there’s nobody who why. That’s just crazy. And so I never expected it to grow like this ever. That’s great.
Sara Rosett [01:01:13]:
Yeah. Well, I love that. Yeah. It’s a good place to get information and to connect with other riders. So that is awesome. And We’ll have those links in the show notes, and those will be at wish I’d known for writers.com. And we also want to be say be sure and remember Book Walt, our sponsor for July, and their link would be wish I’d known for writers.com/bookvault.
Erin Wright [01:01:36]:
So thank you for coming on and talking to us today. We really appreciate it. It’s been great. Yeah. I’m excited to go check out the link because book Vault is one of the sites that I have on my list to learn more out. So you should. And we did a podcast with them. So, yeah, that was great.
Sara Rosett [01:01:50]:
They’re awesome. Super easy to work with. Great quality.
Erin Wright [01:01:54]:
Okay. See what I’m saying. I’m gonna go check them out right right now.
Jami Albright [01:01:57]:
Alright. Well, take care.
question
More Links:
The Big List of Craft and marketing books mentioned on WIKT podcast episodes
Resources from the Author and Reader Community to Help Ukrainians
Recent Comments